Monday, May 28, 2007

hey socialists

Next time you're wandering around complaining about people like me because we "don't care" about our fellow man, preaching socialism as a cure to all of society's ailments, I'm going to think about how socialism has always led to things like this.

Venezuelans (and so many others in the world) should be in all our thoughts, and we should never stop taking our freedoms for granted.

10 comments:

Zenithan said...

I'm not sure how socialism correlates to a loss of individual freedom. Yes, this Venezuelan station was replaced by a state-run station, but a bad government is a bad government whether or not they are socialist. In my opinion, if any socialist is "preaching" to you, they probably have no idea what they are talking about, as with most people who try to force their beliefs down others' throats.

Just a thought.

Zip said...

Socialism correlates to a loss of individual freedom because any time you have a group of individuals who are given the power and a mandate to decide what is best for a society the liberty of that society suffers.

Yes bad government is bad government, but there are too many people who believe that the "social" goals of socialism can not, by virtue of their "social" nature, lead to illiberal practices.

That is why socialism and Chavez's regime in particular should be exposed for what it is a dictatorship dressed up in populist trappings wrapped in a democratic disguise.

Janet said...

zenithan,

I believe that socialism correlates with a loss of individual freedom when put into practice because it requires that all of society participate. So, for instance, regardless of whether or not individual Venezuelans agree with replacing RCTV with a state-run propaganda machine, they must support the decision financially through tax dollars.

And yes, a bad government is a bad government regardless of its size, but surely a large bad government (as would be encouraged by socialism) is far more harmful than a small bad government, and because of its increased power more likely to become a bad government since a larger, more powerful governing body is less likely to be easily changed or held in check by the society it's governing.

But I'm right there with you on not wanting anyone's beliefs shoved down my or anyone elses' throat.

NB taxpayer said...

Nothing to add. Great post Janet.

zolton said...

Good god no reason to debate here. Why don't Libertarians start using proper terms. Privatization=usurpation
Freedom= exploitation.
So you guys can continue to follow a political party which is nothing more then a resource broker for capitalists, selling this country out as we speak.
But please understand yourselves correctly.

Your god damn freedom means shit too me when in reality you progress pure greed! What about sweatshops? How about those peoples freedoms? What about the abuse of the planet for profit? Where is my freedom in knowing that the world will continue long after I'm gone?
Don't try to legitimize the current kamikazi course to me honey!
Honestly I'm disgusted, stick you fuking rhetorical use of the word freedom up your ass cause it don't mean shit if the continuation of conscious existence comes after your selfish exploitation of it. Stop living in the chemical emotional, impulsive world and start REALLY becoming a voice of reason.

You see one bad example of "Authoritarian" socialism and you label the whole lot bad. This shows that you really do not understand the terms.
First of all FREEDOM is the ability to do whatever the fuk you want to do!
I don't want to shoot heroin or molest young children?
Jesus the hypocrisies, your blog's name is Liberty is good! I agree with that statement 100%
Do whatever the fuk you wan tot do as long as you do not harm others! A much more noble cause!
The people at the top have all the freedom they want, they just have to usurp the land and manipulate the minds to gain that (barf) freedom.

LoL looks like iv cursed you rather then enlighten you. You still cannot ignore the rational reasoned arguments that I shout. This post is really not an effective counter. However I love existence soooo much that I will attempt to shove this REASON down your throat, I guess what I believe in is worth fighting for. You cannot say the same.
Loss of freedom sure, you don't get to drive your hummer and you might have to heat the truth about the things you buy. But then did you really ever understand the full extent of the action? Isn't freedom supposed to be somewhat responsible to continue existence and allow future generations to have that freedom? LoL, not your freedom honey!

Zip said...

Silly little statist.

I understand myself perfectly. I believe in limited government, because government does not know best. I also believe in the freest possible speech.

I find it amusing that you zolton, obviously harking from the left of the spectrum can (and would) so eagerly do the ethical gymnastics required to support Chavez’s breach of a fundamental human right (its right there in the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms… go ahead, look it up).

To paraphrase you… Your god damn opinion means shit to me, though I’d gladly fight for your right to express it no matter how rudely, ignorantly and vulgarly you CHOOSE to do so.

Socialism is the rule of the lowest common denominator. The final outcome is the kind of utopia I witnessed first hand in Europe before the wall came down. Ever visit a socialist paradise like Czechoslovakia? Fences all around, machine gun posts facing into the country to keep the happy citizens in. What kind of a screwed up ideal turns an entire country into a prison… Oh yeah, the twin evils, equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. Here’s a newsflash for you Zollie, equality is a lie told by the guys running the show as they remove more and more of your rights. Mark my words, Chavez isn’t done yet.

I was going to respond to the rest of your comment, but to tell you the truth your weak grasp of sentence structure makes your response hard to follow and you obviously don’t know how to craft a decent argument (as evidenced by your need to resort to vulgarity).

Having read your drivel however, I must say that even if you could string a series of coherent words together I doubt you’d be able to say anything more compelling than “Ooh, ooh, global warming, capitalism bad, the earth is dyiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing, save the whales.” So goodnight Zollie, and don’t forget to take your meds.

zolton said...

"I understand myself perfectly. I believe in limited government, because government does not know best. I also believe in the freest possible speech"

Government, all forms should be
defiantly more Democratic.
I don't think government is the be all and end all, however neither is your individual perspective or that or a CEO. By selling off our precious resources to the biggest competitor~~~ or better yet ruthless indiviual our resources will be exploited for greed and not
protected.
IE:United states
Do you like the idea of the NAU btw?
Now about you arguments on freedom of speech.
Do you think that NBC or Fox ABC etc... ever run any bad press on their sponsors? What a reaction against the Dixie chicks!
Bill Mahr? Crossfire? Hmm what happened to real discussion in the US?
Its on at 3am on Sunday night only on pbs.
Yes lets emulate the states they have a great notion of free speech, for an oligarchy!
What Chavez did is wrong no doubt, but him nationalizing of Vensuala's resources for the benefit of the population if fine with me.

"To paraphrase you… Your god damn opinion means shit to me"
Oh is that was I said.
Actually What I said was is that your half assed double speak rhetorical use of a word/concept, to draw an emotional response, thats it we agree that your concept is legitimate, means shit to me when people try to justify our current kamikaze course.

Then you reiterate my argument previous post when you use a select instance of socialism (*dominated by authoritarian principals*) and use that as A reference on all of the left.
Ok, there Hitler! LoL
I can give you hundreds of examples of bad capitalist societies or the oppression of societies for the benefit of the conquering capitalists, but id rather not attack the instances but the fundamental flaws of that system.
one of these problems is that capitalism cant keep creating more excess capital indefinably. Look at the US they sold their country out and are still, what 30 trillion in debt?
Want some more??
How about that competition turns into ruthlessness where the CEO of a company is more in the black if he looks at the value of life and the environment/giver of life as a resource to exploit. Theres some critical f$k^@g information lacking in the mind of the individual who is no more then a functioning arm of a system rather then a rational individual. Do you vehemently legitimize this current course?
Are you just a mouthpiece?

Ok, I didn't want to offend you counter effectively.
Oh Btw you resorted to a level that you attempted to appear be above in your last post. LoL
Besetlek a majar?
Sorry about my Hungarian but if you do understand then Fogh beh est sayd.

Janet said...

Zolton,

I'm of the opinion that you have, at best, a very weak grasp of what the word "freedom" means and no understanding of how libertarians believe it should be practiced, which is why you're always freaking out over, quite frankly, nothing.

I usually ignore (and will continue to ignore) your comments. Whenever I do give them a once-over you're obviously foaming at the mouth in some kind of frenzy that causes you to spew profanities and jibberish onto my blog.

I really do wish you would find your own space to do this, since I neither want nor appreciate the kinds of contributions you make here.

zolton said...

You call me out, I shut you up!
Again you guys have not produced any effective counter.
You obviously cannot.
Thanks!

zolton said...

Maybe you should enlighten me on your definitions of libertarianism and freedom.
Hmm why don't you?
Do you know the proper definitions or only the rhetorical and stigmatic slanted viewpoint dictated to you by fascist inputs/or paternal manipulation.

Honestly I'm kinda happy, this shows me that most conservatives are more like a sheep, not wolves.

You cannot counter because you do not really know. LoL

I take my definition of freedom from Gramsci. He's just trying to get the definitions right, and hit the nail on the head.
Do we need systemization of our labor forces?
Maybe in 200 years or so we won't but currently libertarians are just ashamed right wingers attempting to evolve.
However you cannot evolve libertarianism unless you walk the "True" talk.
And you prove my theories right when you do not show a more contentious evolved mindset, that libertarianism requires.

Kings and capitalists attempting to look like the small guy, so that they can manipulate him and make him interdependent within an economic superstructure that has an underline hidden nihilistic philosophy.
Life is not a game there are no winners!