Monday, May 26, 2014

Inclusive liberty or no liberty at all

Inclusive liberal democratic societies face a challenge: What happens if the people we allow to participate don't want to be free? Do loose immigration policies and multiculturalism endanger freedom?

The concern of the day (though historically I doubt it's exceptional) is about Muslims. The argument goes like this: "Muslims have a higher birth rate than other groups in Western countries, and many of them want something like Sharia law and an Islamic state. Islam lacks an appreciation for the civic virtues that support liberal democracies in primarily Judeo-Christian countries. If we admit Muslims freely and allow them to vote, they will become too powerful and we will end up less free - or not free at all."

I don't believe any part of that is true, but let's suppose that all of it was. What's a liberal democracy to do?

I argued earlier that the way to promote the virtues that support a free society is to practice (and test and defend) them, and that practicing them is done by standing up for one another. If it is to be meaningful and robust, liberalism must be a fundamentally cooperative and inclusive exercise.

If we make concessions that allow infringements on the liberties of others, however targeted they may be, we erode support for the values we claim we're trying to save. If our liberal institutions are in danger, we are making them more vulnerable by allowing targeted concessions.

If the laws and values of a liberal society are not robust to the challenges presented by a specific group, they are not robust at all. Those who are willing to make exceptions because of one perceived threat open the door to others. They should not be surprised if they are blindsided - perhaps by those they empowered to make their exceptions.

There is no quick and easy solution. Liberty is a collaborative exercise, not a free-for-all. If we want to preserve the foundations of a liberal society, we must enforce them. The best, maybe the only, way to do that is to insist they are upheld consistently and for everyone.

7 comments:

Jeremy said...

We should celebrate multiculturalism in Canada as we all come form immigrants ourselves. The joy that multiculturalism brings to our everyday Canadian life is something that make us unique and shows the world how peace can be achieved through diversity instead of wars and invading foreign countries. Muslim immigration is a very important aspect of multiculturalism in Canada cause it shows that we are tolerant and understanding of how Islam is really a peaceful religion.

tao_taier said...

@"Jeremy"

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/LinktoTROP.htm

"Muslim immigration is a very important aspect of multiculturalism in Canada [sic]cause it shows that we are tolerant and understanding of how Islam is really a peaceful religion. "

Complete lies and misinformation.
It is an antithesis to liberty & diversity... and thus prosperity & life itself.

You can't have "multiculturalism" if you invite hostile non pluralist death cults into the mix, that try to assimilate the pluralistic host culture, rather than assimilate into it naturally like everyone else.

Islam is NOT multicultural and is a supremacist ideology masquerading as a "religion".
The "prophet" Mohammad was actually warlord. And his god "Allah" was a Pagan moon god hence why no description in the Qur'an of "Allah" was needed as it was already commonly understood to whom it was referring.

"shows the world how peace can be achieved through diversity instead of wars and invading foreign countries."

Utter nonsense. I'd rather be and armed soldier in a conflict than a hapless victim being stoned/set-aflame/beheaded/raped or generally murdered and have my innards paraded as trophies or given to children, for simply not being muslim.
Somehow in your mind thats a worth while import that we need to appreciate first hand?... (look up honor killings in North America, can't wait until that hits critical mass, "Jeremy"?)

You don't get true peace by letting your enemy in through the gates as a gesture of tolerance... It's an absurd notion and incredibly naive.

Yet good law abiding citizens are left defenseless from governments that impose strict gun controls, cuz you know, they mite shoot each other.. or something...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywood/2014/06/06/Jon-Stewart-What-If-Open-Carry-Demonstrator-Gets-Shot-By-Stand-Your-Ground-Follower

But please, let in people from hostile lands that of sword their lives to remove our hard fought freedoms or simple kill us in the process. Dhimmitude or your life, which one has "Jeremy" pledged?

The jig is up on stealth jihadism. No one is going to fall for your nonsense much longer and your world wide efforts are in vain.
Make something useful of yourself and give up this madness. No one is asking them to change their clothes or food, just stop calling on or perpetuating death & hatred.

Pretty simple choice assuming your not being coaxed by an uncle from the old world threatening to murder your family or comply.
Or are you expecting paradise?
I mean, the middle east is just thriving in prosperity & genuine love of life?...right? What great peace it brings... if only those pesky Israelis give up their miniscule sliver of land they built up into an oasis, THEN they'll have "true" "peace"...

tao_taier said...

Whoops, meant to use this link:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AboutSite.htm

Amazing still what i can do in a mad rush in spite of that error.

tao_taier said...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_s5By7s8z0

(^"Allah")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIOC44sDSXs

(^Semiramis)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwtTnfOg3k

(^Lilith)

enjoy the videos... they creeped me out thoroughly.
So anyone with a lucidly wild imagination that can turn the simplest imagery into a vivid horror show, should watch with eyes closed. Chances are great that anyone (98%) else will remain unaffected by my warning and will laugh it up at my perceived weakness.

Until they finish that series.
For those that do, know that ahead of time that the biblical information is impressive but outside of that area of expertise the guy gets history of the enlightenment off by cherrying picking the bad over the good, and the "hidden hand" argument is fully debunk-able nonsense.
Also, liberty is not based off the pagan goddess Libertas.**

His understanding of fractional banking as usury is also weak. And entirely misinformed but understandable given the time period it was uploaded. (and soviet cell propaganda pushing that bs).

Fractional banking isn't arbitrary, i.e "numbers out of thin air". Look up its full history and applied fixes.
Though all the free market and non-monopolist bankers looking to fix keep dying of.. "apparent suicides".

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-23/banker-death-epidemic-spreads-china

Idiots who see that as a good thing are clueless.





foot note:

**https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertas

That is the false goddess for sexual liberation.

That type of liberty our "Liberal" parties push, "social" liberties... which in truth mean nothing if you can't have financial liberty which is the most fundamental liberty that leads to the freeing up of all others!
Including (but not limited to) the social freedom to be a sexual deviant (regardless of orientation) to make real life fabled examples of how&why NOT to be like that.
Sometimes you have to let foolishness run its course and let them learn the hard way by experiencing the bad first hand.

Hence the Ontario election results.. idiots voting their lifestyle preferences over reality.

tao_taier said...

And your welcome to the bombardment of over information. May it not swell your brains too greatly.

Jeremy said...

@ tao_taier:
Islam is a religion of peace and you shouldn’t judge every Muslim simply by the evil actions of only a few radicals. Shame on you for showing such intolerance as a Canadian in an ethnically diverse and multicultural nation. There are over a million Muslims in Canada who are very active in everyday Canadian life and who are proud to call Canada their country. Muslims are your doctors, lawyers, professors, school teachers, politicians, police officers, civil servants, military, taxi drivers and many more. Your postings of videos are deplorable and defame the holy religion of Islam. Intolerant people like you are the enemy who incites violence by portraying Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) as evil people. Your cartoons and videos are vulgar and disrespectable to the Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him), Islam and Muslims on Canada. Canada guarantees the freedom of religion as a constitutional right and further guarantees freedom from persecution. You are the very people that persist in persecuting Muslim Canadians by posting your vulgar videos, cartoons and propaganda against Islam.

tao_taier said...

what cartoons? What an interesting response from a silent jihadist ...

I really, I don't know where to start, but you thoroughly proved my point. Your a fraud. Dissent and skepticism is not persecution. Neither is it "hate speech" to point out the obvious. I'm not inciting violence like Muslims do at any given moment, which according to their "religion" actually makes them pious.

Being Muslim is a choice and not a race or culture, they could give up the hate fest against non-muslims if it didn't mean their own demise at the hands of fellow muslims.

They are their own worst enemy and no one kills more muslims than muslims.

Even without the sectarian violence, your "religion" is instructed to kill those who leave it.

That behavior predates our time by several centuries at least, and even before the crusades which your "religion" instigated to begin with.

I'm not out to persecute you, just expose your nonsensical arguments and backwards logic:

Your book is against "multiculturalism".
Your book commands that you convert or enslave through dhimmitude & punitive taxes on non believers or outright kill them.
And to lie your way throughout the process. I won't bother with direct quotes to save space. (Given that people should know this stuff on their own by now to not have to have it spoon fed by me.)

And like I said, your "religion's" worst sin is to leave it, punishable by death in all sorts of unsavory and barbaric ways.

As observed on a daily basis around the world where ever this Abomination Of Desolation rears its head.

There are no radical Muslims except those that flee it for a glimpse of freedom & sanity. The non violent muslims you speak of either suffer from an immense fear for their own safety and that of their loved ones or Stockholm syndrome. Or are "Trojan Horse" stealth Jihadist like yourself, painting a rosey picture to pave the way for the really bad ones to get in.

I don't hate Muslims, I just want them to escape their death cult and join the rest of civil society in the 21st century.

I'm not a "multiculturalist". I believe in pluralism but not balkanization. Individualism over collectivism and so forth.

I have never harassed or mistreated any Muslim. They seem to have thin enough skin to kill over spilled milk or cartoons as it is. However kindness for the sake of it feels more rewarding even when directed at those who want me repressed, dead or converted.

One of those, "my God is greater than your god" sort of things I guess.
I don't mean to gloat. I just choose freedom & prosperity, over death & anguish. Your dreams of a global caliphate only offer the latter of those options.
So like the rest of the world, who have more constructive things to do with their time, I'll leave you to your choice.